004: Content Creation with Felicia Ceballos-Marroquin

Huge thank you to Patte Shetler for the transcription of this episode!

Amy M.: 00:01 Welcome to Women in WP, a bimonthly podcast about women who blog, design, develop, and more in the WordPress community. Welcome to Episode 4 of Women in WP. Today we are joined by Felicia Ceballos, a content producer for WPMU DEV. She’s also an advocate for sustainable living and makes vegan soap. Welcome to the show today Felicia.

Felicia C: 00:25 Hi everbody!

Tracy A: 00:28 Yay Hi!

Amy M.: 00:29 And of course I’m joined today with Tracy And Angela.

Tracy A: and Angela B: 00:32 Hi!

Amy M.: 00:32 So Felicia? We would like to start today, we start our episodes by asking our guests what was your journey to WordPress?

Felicia C.: 00:42 So that was a long time ago. It was like 10 years ago. I spent my early 20s promoting independent artists. I got into doing music reviews and album reviews.
Some of the blogs were like we’re just going to give you access to a WordPress account. Just go in there. I was like ok. And so I just kind of started doing that. I logged into different ones and I was like these are all different. This is cool. You can kind of add whatever you want. Then I got inspired to do my own blog and then it just went from there. Then I started building things for other people, other independent artists, other friends, or anybody with an idea. I would build things for them. Then it just kind of goes like that you know?

Tracy A.: 01:33 What was your formal background before you jumped into WordPress?

Felicia C.: 01:38 So, I have always been kind of a creative person. So all kinds of different art things. I worked for the Getty for a little bit. I worked for like the cities around here in Southern California. So I would work for their parks and recreation department. I have just been all over the place really as far as my background in music for a long time; so all kinds of creative things.

Tracy A.: 02:07 Do you play music?

Felicia C.: 02:08 No. I sing.

Tracy A.: 02:12 You sing? That is an instrument. That is also an instrument. That’s great!

Felicia C.: 02: 15 Yeah. I think it’s the hardest to play because if you don’t eat right or if you’re sick or something it just sounds all-wrong. So you’re pretty much a musician 24 x 7.

Tracy A.: 02:25 Yeah.

Amy M.: 02:27 Wow! So when you were first starting out
in WordPress and you were building all these things for all the creative people were you charging for that or were you doing that just to share the love?

Felicia C.: 02: 40 So in the beginning I was doing it to just share the love. I was doing it really for the love of the music. That was a long time ago. WordPress was still just something new. I don’t think anyone was monetizing that. I didn’t know that was a thing. Then the more I got into it I was like this is the whole world. I think musicians are the first to usually kind of jump into that world and start to monetize it and start to do their own websites, start to try to build their own audiences and do their own marketing and be a brand. That was I think way before everybody else was doing it. That was kind of my introduction to it. I was like I can charge for this. I can help them and it’s a real service, it’s something they don’t want to do. They just want to make music. I think that for as much as I like singing, I also just really like putting everything together. I like seeing the big picture. I like seeing the whole press kit, the photos, the album art or how the whole thing really translates into a piece of art.

Tracy A.: 03:42 That’s awesome. It seems to me almost lost a little bit in the digital era now.

Felicia C.: 03:46 It is.

Tracy A.: 03:47 Yeah.

Felicia C.: 03:48 Yeah. But I think it is lost but at the same time we’re replacing album art with an Instagram, you know? Beyonce’s Instagram is a work of art.

Tracy A.: 03:47 You’re not wrong.

Felicia C.: 03:59 Album art the time.

Tracy A.: 04:01 That’s true. That’s a good way of looking at it.

Amy M.: 04:04 Everything Beyonce does is a work of art.

Angela B.: 04:08 Well from reading your bio it sounds like you have this artistic side but you also have a very technical side as well. Can you speak about that and how you got involved with the technical pieces of things? How did you learn and what attracted you to be more technical?

Felicia C.: 04: 20 That’s a great question. So I think with the me, I’ve always been kind of like the artistic side rather than the technical side. It’s always been part of the same half. I don’t know if that’s just kind of the way my mind works but I’ve always kind of been driven by the need to create. As soon as I hit an obstacle I want to overcome it. So if the obstacle is technical (this is part of my vision) I need to get it done so I can get it out of the way. So a lot of how I got into it was I just had a vision of something that I wanted to produce. Then I usually didn’t have access to a developer because the musicians or people do not have any funds. So I just had to learn how to do it. I just do it one Google at a time, you know? It was just really simple things and then bigger things. So that’s how I learned Photoshop. How do you open a photo? How do you crop a photo? How you move a photo? It was literally one question at a time. Now it was same thing with, once I started doing CSS and PHP it was like how do I add this to my site? How do I…you know what is even this language I need to learn, How do I even ask the question? Then it just went from there over and over. Then before I knew it, I was like I conceive something in my mind’s eye and know that I have all the different little tools to bring it to life. To me that’s the best.

Tracy A.: 05:51 Yeah. That’s really, really cool. I mean I agree. I think it’s like…if you think about it like a painter and you have a canvas and you have different tools you can do like paints. You can do oils and do all this other stuff. It makes a lot of sense to be able to use. I look at it that way too with the technical side of things. And especially as being a creator, whether it be through music or technology. What are you the most proud of that you have created?

Felicia C.: 06:20 So of my favorite things I did was…the company I worked for before WPMU DEV… I did this WordPress multi site and then had an Intranet. It also did a lot of the on boarding automatically. So if somebody was new in the company, they just kind of filled out a form and it would create like a BuddyPress profile for them. It would send them a series of welcome emails. It would you know, at 90 days they would get an automatic email with their benefits package. Then we had different branches. So sites for all those different branches, and it was all automated, all brought together, all you know, branded together with the same themes. That thing was beautiful. But it took years. It took years to build it that way. But it was also just my baby. I was the only one that was in there. So I had different authors and contributors and everybody but as far as maintaining and building it, it was me. So as soon as I would learn something, I would go back and do it. So you know before had 10 sites and then I learned WordPress multisite and I was like I can do this one. Why am I multiplying my efforts across 10 sites? So then I would bring them all together. Once I learned about how to structure workflows or how to do BuddyPress, I am like we can use this. Let me bring it in. It was just piece-by-piece that way. You know by the end I think we had like 100 employees on that thing. We had like a call center running leads through it, distributing leads through it. We had all the information consolidated for all the different branches. So people would come on and say hey. I need this document. It’s on the Intranet. It was amazing. I did not know WordPress could do something that. I just was like I’m going to push it as far as it can go. As soon as I hit a wall then we’ll trade to some type of enterprise software. I just never hit that wall.

Tracy.: 08:15 That’s awesome.

Angela B: 08:16 It is really

Amy M. :08:17 And did the company fall apart when you left?

Felicia C.: 08:24 I don’t know. I tried to quit a couple of times. One of the times I tried to quit they were like we’ll have to hire 5 people to replace you. It was just because I was leveraging WordPress. It would take us 8 hours to onboard a new employee. I made WordPress be able to do it in 20 minutes. So that was real progress but across multiple departments, you know? I was like when I leave you’re going to have to find someone who either knows how to do this the way I did it or they are going to have to go back and do it the manual way. Yeah.

Amy M.: 09:03 Wow! I love all the automation that you put into place. Automation is kind of one of my side hobbies. I love making things automated. So do you have a favorite automation that you’ve done that you use that you think everybody would benefit from hearing about?

Felicia C.: 09:18 So one of my favorite, favorite things in WordPress is Gravity Flow. It’s a plugin that you add to Gravity Forms. They both enable you to structure a workflow but in the way where the next action will not occur until its triggered. You can connect it to Zapier so that’s how I would do the one for the benefits. After 90 days, it would set off a trigger then you know Zapier would like send an email. Those two in combination working together it changed everything. It really allowed all the processes to be really solidified so that we would have this workflow and it was set in stone. And then every time we would go through it, we’re like well we’re missing this step. Let’s add it into the workflow. And then oh! We’re missing this. It would really help if you know they had their parking pass the day they started. So let me send out an email a day before to make sure we get their drivers license and their plate number, so we can do that. We would just add step by step by step and it was really great to be not only see it but when we were like ok we need to change this whole thing. It made it much more tangible so we could see the steps. We could drag-and-drop and move them around. It wasn’t like oh. We’re going to kind of try to do it like this. It’s like no. Give me details. Give me the order. Show me how it’s supposed to be done. That’s when it would really be…it was a great management tool. I’ll never do automation again like that. Where it’s kind of all over the place and you can’t really can’t visualize it. To see it is the best.

Amy M.: 11:06 I feel like automation is also art.

All: 11:11 I would agree with that.

Amy M.: 11:12 I’m not an artist but at that’s my art form. It is automation. So that’s so awesome to hear about.

Tracy A.: 11:19 Everyone is artistic.

Felicia C.: 11:21 I think it’s like a conductor. You are just like the maestro right there. It’s a good art form.

Angela B.: 11:27 You mentioned in your bio about, I mean in your intake with us that the company that you worked for before WPMU DEV didn’t have women in higher positions. What was that like? Then how is it different for you at WPMU DEV? We love WPMU DEV. We’d love to hear more about the inside.

Felicia C.: 11:51 I love them too. They’re the best.
It was just…it was a really competitive environment before. It was very like… it was like everybody was their own little island trying to battle against everybody else. Now it’s way different. I’m like oh! I’m part of a team and everybody is competent. I don’t have to everything for everybody and be all things to all people. So that was a huge thing because the problem before was that (I don’t know if it was just out of just nobody had time to do anything supposedly) so it was like if an email had to sent out, if you know we had to send out text messages or any kind of marketing or make changes to the site or nobody was I don’t have time to do it. I was like ok. I’ll do it. For me, if it was a learning opportunity I would do it. I think that’s how you become…that’s how you really how you gain influence. The more you learn then people can’t do anything without you. Then you get to say how it’s done. That’s I think (even though I felt like I was the only one) I had a lot of power. I was where everything converged. They couldn’t get anything done without me past a certain point because when it was time to like hey we need to get this program to talk to this program it’s like well, I am the only one here who knows how to use an API. So bring it to me. But I am not going to use that program because that sucks. So I’m going to do what I say. Then I would just do it that way. It was a great way to get that power and kind of gain that ability to make things happen versus just being kind of like well you really don’t know anything. No. I really do and I can actually make this work for you.

Angela B.: 13:46 But now at WPMU DEV you have more people like you. So what’s that like? Is that more exciting?

Felicia C.: 13:53 It is. So I was always used to configuring things out on my own and now it’s great to be able to learn from people, you know? It’s like hey! I have a question. How do you do this? They will teach me. It’s a lot more open even know we’re all distributed, it feels a lot closer which is really nice, you know? There’s really not that kind of animosity. It’s not like us against them. It’s all of us together. I think that’s also why we can produce really great things. It all comes from this place of cooperation of like a sort of improvisation, where you’re like and you know? You’re adding on to whatever somebody else is doing. Here let me add this what you are doig. They’re like no we’re not going to do that. So that’s a whole different approach. I much prefer it.

Amy M.: 14:42 How many people are there at your company?

Felicia C.: 14:46 At WPMU DEV I think there’s 100. But it’s hard to tell because there are everywhere.

Amy M.: 14:52 And what you feel? Do you have any idea of what the men/women ratio is?

Felicia C.: 14:57 I don’t.

Amy M.: 14:58 Ok. I just wondered working in the…you know…at least the rest of us… we’re all kind of on our own or small agencies. I’ve never worked in a full WordPress company that’s got a lot of people and I wondered what the breakdown is. Are there are a lot of women that work there?

Felicia C.: 15:20 I don’t know because I’ve only kind of stuck to my corner. So I haven’t ventured out on all the different Slack channels.

Amy M.: 15:28 Ok.

Felicia C.: 15:30 There’s a lot of them. There’s a lot going on. I think what matters most is sort of the approach to it. It’s like you can feel it. I know that I can go in there and it will be like what are you doing here versus that can happen whether there’s a of women or not that many because of the other women are shutting out to because of the culture then more women doesn’t help you. But yeah. I never felt like…it’s a very different feeling now compared to how it was before. I always felt kind of like I’m on the outside looking in. I can’t really say what I want to say. I can’t reveal my whole self because that could just be one more thing used against me. Now I feel like everybody is just so open, so themselves, so they invite me to be myself. That’s a really nice feeling to not have to minimize or conceal what I am or who I am. Oh I’m a woman oh yeah. I’ll play it like the boys, you know? I can just be think…I don’t have to be anything. I can speak.

Amy M.: 16:41 I think that is something we’ve noticed and we mentioned before is how welcoming and open the WordPress community has been to women and for us as women in tech and we feel…at least I felt like it’s been a little different then maybe other sectors of technology. It’s great to hear that it’s similar for you and your company.

Felicia C.: 17:01 It is. That’s something that I love about WordPress too. It’s a more even playing field.

Angela B.: 17:08 Yeah. I was just thinking about that the other day when you know people are asking us about this podcast why are we doing this? It’s not just because we feel in some way that women might not be recognized in WordPress I think its maybe the opposite. It’s that women in tech in general represent like 17% in tech. Maybe WordPress is one of those places where there is a safe environment for women to maybe get into tech. If we can highlight the women doing things in the WordPress space may be that we could be an influence for other areas that don’t have as many women and aren’t as welcoming. There is something that maybe the whole field could learn from from WordPress and the WordPress community in that way.

Tracy A.: 17:52 Speaking of like that kind of entry-level type stuff… so one of the things that especially being in the minority in tech especially when it comes to development and technical things and learning that stuff, I noticed when I was teaching myself this stuff that all of the documentation was written for people that already had a background in the stuff that they were teaching and so they skipped a bunch of steps. It felt like it was either talking down to me or talking over my head. I took a look at some of your writing and like the Github article and stuff…because I still struggle with that. I’ve been doing this for years. I still have to Google like how do I revert. Like how do I do this? I was reading the article and I was like this is the kind of documentation stuff that I needed when I was learning this. What is your process for being able to like take something very complex and then make it palatable for anyone that is new to this.

Felicia C.: 19:01 That took a little bit because I think that I would also read documentation where I have no idea what this says. They would use like analogies… they’re making references to things like I’ve never seen that movie. I don’t know what that is. It would just make it more confusing, they’re making references to videogames. So I really wanted to write something like as neutral as possible. Then you know with WPMU DEV I have to consider too that people all over the world are reading this. I can’t just make American references, you know? I want it to be as clear as possible in the writing, you know? Sometimes I get it wrong. So I think the WIP newsletter that we do. I sent it out last week for the first time and I misspelled fortnite. I wrote it like day and night. Not nite. I was like oh I am old. Then the other day I was in a board meeting for a local community organization and I made a Derek Zoolander reference. They looked at me like…yeah I know..I just trying to make a reference to an idot. But you know I try to remain as conscious as possible now. Who am I really speaking to? Who is on the other side? How do I choose language that is inclusive for everybody not jut something that somebody is going to get or somebody else is going to. You just start with that approach because not everybody has certain privileges, you know? So not everybody went to school for four years. Some people think differently for whatever reason. I think WordPress being this inclusive community we have to write the tutorials that go with it, you know? A lot of people don’t have CS degrees. These are things that they need to learn. They want to learn and they try to learn…I tried to learn Git 10 times or something like that. I was like how can I write this for me or someone like me who wants to wants to or has been trying to but is just not getting it? So that one took me awhile. That took me like four rewrites on that one, to really feel like ok. Now I do know how to do it.

Angela B: 21:30 I do. I have a blog so I write. I find that I spend hours and hours if I want to write a good thorough tutorial. Then of course, the Yoast tool tells me that my sentences are incomprehensible. I have to go back…and like ok. My sentences are kind of compound and long and I have to break it up and make simple sentences. What’s your writing process like in terms of does it take you a long time to write things? Do you feel like it’s worth really taking the time and making the article a little bit longer rather than just generating content just for the sake of generating content?

Felicia C: 22:09 Yeah. So part of the reason I took this gig is because writing was really hard for me. It still kind of is. I think I work really well with visuals but to be able to communicate something…because like I said earlier I see something in my minds eye and then I can create it based on what I see. With words you can’t do that. You have to
sort of layout the thoughts and organize them. And it was really something that I wanted to work on. I’m like I don’t want to be afraid of putting out what I really think and expressing it the way I really want to say it. So this is something I want to work on. But with that said it’s also very scary once you start doing it. Once you’re sitting there trying to write it knowing that you’re kind of facing this thing down. In the beginning you’re also kind of terrified, just sitting there staring at this blank page. I’m going to try to write this thing and I’m probably going to have to write it a lot. I would write it four or fives times, you know? Somethings I still hated but you know what? I have to do it. I have to to put it out there. It’s only in the last couple months that I feel like I can think that way now. I’m not afraid of it anymore. I thought that take it would take a lot longer. I thought it was something I was going to have to deal with. Now there’s still some uncertainty but now there’s a lot more faith where I can see it through to the end versus before I would have a lot of little personal blogs and things that I would write and would just abandon. Because I couldn’t you know go through the process. I would write something and say oh that sucks. Just let me delete it out of here forever. You know? But all those things helped me to get here. But as far as the process goes, I think the process even for me that I write is all I do now and it’s still hard. It’s never just I see a perfect thing and I just write it out and it just you know?

Tracy A: 24:20 Hey here!

Felicia C: 24:21 It takes a lot.

Amy M: 24:25 And do you do a lot of proofreading and revisions or are you just the push it out kind of girl?

Felicia C: 24:29 It depends. It depends on the topic. Some topics are very…I kind of just push through it and then some things when there’s a whole lot of research to be done I think there has to be a lot of revisions. It just feels like you’re kind of trudging through mud. You write something and like is that really true, you know? Is that something that I assumed or where did I hear that? Did I hear that from somebody who is actually reputable? Then you go back and you check. The more you start to do that then you get bogged down. The more you’re like where did I come up with that? Why is that a thing? With the Git one I was like where did I learn some of these things? In what
tutorial? I would just you know break it down, go through it and be yeah that’s wrong. That’s probably wrong. This is…is this wrong? It just takes awhile.

Tracy A: 25:32 I can imagine writing about it. Even just like, every so often I’ll teach at the college level, I get asked at my alma mater and like I’ve been doing this stuff for so long. Then teaching it and writing about is the best way to second-guess what you know.

Felicia C: 25:51 It really is! I think now that everything moves so fast. What I knew, that was like two years ago but it’s done. There’s something totally…you know when I did not Git post…the week after they were like that we have three repositories now; private ones. Give me a week.

Tracy A: 26:17 Yep. I had it where they’re like yeah that program doesn’t even exist anymore. I actually literally had a schedule to teach a client about like Google analytics. Then Google changed something overnight and I started the meeting and was like…and then you click…never mind that moved. Hang on a second.

Angela B: 26:38 That’s really tough for me too because I teach a lot of classes. You know if you teach a software program, like if you do the Adobe Creative Suite it doesn’t change so dramatically. It’s maybe every 18 months or something. But in our space it’s changing constantly; overnight especially with the Google products. It’s like I’ll go wait! I just looked at that like yesterday. And I go into a class the next day and it’s changed. Do you find that you’re having to go back in and rewrite some things, to correct things? Is that part of the process that you have?

Felicia C: 27:11 It is. It’s a lot. I mean even this podcast we did a post on podcasts and then you know we knew that you were going to put out an episode. I was just watching it. I was watching Twitter. Like one day it’s going to come out. Then when it did, let me put it on the list. You know? We have to make sure we stay up to date and putting out good information. I think that there’s a lot of people putting out so much information but then once you start searching to find a real answer, looking, qualifying it trying to see is this reputable versus trying to make something really of high-quality, it takes longer on my side. But I think it saves everybody else time. And so that’s worth it.

Tracy A: 27:59 How much now…you said you pretty much do writing now but do you still get to create in like music, in dev and design, all that stuff. Do you still get to do any of that stuff?

Felicia C: 28:10 The music thing is my one true love. I think with that I’m just selfish. I like to sing when I’m happy, when I’m home, when I’m doing things and I have my little victories, when I’m cleaning the house, when I’m cooking and I think that’s enough. It’s enough to just have my joy for myself. As far as what I create right now this is the thing. This is the thing I’m obsessed with. I just like to give it all that creative energy. So it needs it right now because it’s still kind of hard for me. The writing is still not automatic. It probably never will be but that’s fine.

Amy M: 28:54 Automattic with the two t’s?

Felicia C: 28:58 laughing. Yeah we do a lot of puns WPMU DEV.

Amy M: 29:02 All right. I fit right in. So how much content are you producing like on a daily or weekly basis?

Felicia C: 29:11 It’s like an article and a half a week. We also have to go back and do creative things. There’s still like responding to comments we have. Right now too we’re kind of restructuring the way that we put out content so that we can do it better. So we can get really focused as far as people want because we don’t want to just pump it out to pump it out. Like what is it, you know? You go to the forums and see what are people really asking for? What do they want? We do our writing based on that.

Tracy A: 29:51 How do you choose what you write about? Is it just going through…do you choose it yourself or is it something that a committee (or whatever) has chosen as a group?

Felicia C: 30:01 We do several things. Sometimes I choose it, sometimes we choose it. Sometimes we’re like hey. This is coming up over and over. We need to really do something about this. It really depends. We’re working on sort of creating a formal process where we can kind of do this faster. We can do high quality faster. Right now we’re looking at how to produce kind of longer articles but how to do them efficiently because they take a lot of time.

Tracy A: 30:35 Oh yeah.

Felicia C: 30:36 You know? We’ll get like 30,000 so it’s like an article a week or an article and a half. But that’s five posts on another blog.

Tracy A: 30:45 Yeah you’re up to a novel pretty quick.

Amy M: 30:47 For sure. I try to get out 1,000 words on a blog post on a routine basis. But 30,000 words, that’s something different altogether.

Angela B: 30:58 Yeah. I think the longer post like my longer posts are definitely you know, 3000-4000 or so words. I think that the longer it is, it’s going to have better SEO. It’s going to rank better because it’s going to look a little bit more authoritative. So is that something you are considering too? That maybe long will take us more time but it might give us more bang for the buck in the long run.

Felicia C: 30:21 Yes. I also try to look at it for density because I noticed that some posts are really long but they’re conversational. They want to talk. I don’t want to talk. I need to know facts. Tell me how to do the thing I want to do. I don’t think that rambling and sort of filling the words is the way either. When I write like a guide, I try to see what everyone else kind of doing in that space? What is like the average? Is it because they’re trying to cut it down to fit because it’s too long? Is it because they are trying to cover this big topic? I’ve seen guides for 20,000 words. I can never compete with that but is that because they are just trying to be the number one and fill it out as much as possible, you know? They repeat information. They sort of get all these blog posts and condense them into one post. You know? You can beat them with a good high-quality dense article that really just hits the point sometimes.

Tracy A: 32:25 Especially if you actually can help people and it gets shared a lot, like there’s some articles… like to this day that as soon as I start typing in my address like in the search bar it shows those articles. I refer to them constantly. That stuff is really useful for so many people. It affects so many people’s ability to create just like we do.

Felicia C: 32:53 Yeah. It definitely does.

Amy M: 30:57 One of the things I do in my blog post is I try to answer questions that people are asking me, my clients are asking me. I find myself now when somebody else asked me the same question, I can just pull up my blog post that I wrote and send them link. I’m saving myself time by having that answer prewritten.

Felicia C: 33:14 Yes. That’s an excellent use of a blog post.

Amy M: 33:18 So it’s not just you know spit out on information but to help mainly my clients or people that might be my clients do something that they maybe didn’t know how to do.

Felicia C: 33:31 Yeah. Like for the Intranet that I built for the other company. Like I answer the same five questions over and over. So to just put them all of in a post I’m going to automate it so you can get this on your first day. Then yeah. I never had to answer that question again.

Tracy A: 33:50 Work smarter not harder.

Felicia C: The power of automation. The art.

Angela B: 33:54 Off the topic of technical, tell us about Los Angeles and sustainability and we’re hearing that all over the country, even in our area in the front range of Colorado. So it’s a personal passion project of mine too. I’m curious if you are able to speak briefly to that.

Felicia C: 34:18 Yeah. I love the outdoors. So we grew up RV-ing but now we just go camping, you know? I’ve climbed sand dunes, we like back packing the Grand Canyon and we have done camping the forest. It is so beautiful to me. I’ve never been more at peace and in awe of everything then when I’m outside. So to me, to see what happens when it’s damaged, it just breaks me. It breaks my heart, you know? When you go to the beach and there’s plastic everywhere. When I was a kid it wasn’t like this. To see it now, we have to do something. This is bad. So that’s something that me and my husband, when we moved into this hundred year cottage, this whole house has one closet and it has two bedrooms. One closet. So we had to kind of rethink the way we did everything because it’s not really conducive to a modern lifestyle, So we started doing things differently because of the house. But then it kind of took on a life of its own. One of my things was I started getting into zero waste, just super ambitious. It takes some planning. But once we started doing it, we’re like hey. We’re not in Target every week. We have a lot more time to go hiking, to go camping to do all the stuff we want to do when we’re not just buying stuff. The more we started doing it, the more we just kind of got happier in a way. Like I don’t watch TV anymore but that was not my intention. It was just because we started spending so much time outside and so much time with our friends you know, in our community, volunteering, doing things that I just forgot what nights things were on. Before you knew it I was like people ask me what are you watching on Netflix? I have not had Netflix in 8 months.

Amy M: 36:43 Wow!

Felicia C: 36:44 Nothing. But it was never my intention to be this way. It’s was just kind of like you start doing it and the more you do it the more you’re like this kind of works better. I’m entertained in my day to day. I don’t really need to sit there and be entertained.

Angela B: 37:00 Well it would be fabulous in Los Angeles. I grew up in Los Angeles too. It’s like wow! She’s living this whole other lifestyle in LA. It’s awesome. It’s inspiring.

Felicia C: 37:08 It is. What part of LA did you grow up?

Angela B: 37:13 We lived mostly in the San Fernando Valley and all over the place, Burbank, Granada Hills. I lived sometime in Moorpark and I just been kind of all over that area. My family lives in Valencia now, and Calabasas. So yeah. That whole area.

Felicia C: 37:39 It’s big.

Angela B: 37:00 Yeah. It’s big. There’s a lot of traffic and I don’t miss it because I just can’t handle it.

Felicia C: 37:50 So I grew up kind of by Long Beach and now I live in Orange County. There is a lot less traffic in Orange County. That’s what I love about WPMU DEV because I get to work from home. So no more traffic. No commute. I am done with LA. I am done with the hour and a half commute both ways.

Amy M: 38:11 Well I’d like to thank you for being our guest today. It was really interesting talking to you. If you want to take a minute and tell us where everybody can find you online.

Felicia C: 38:21 So you can find me @greencottagejoy. That’s where I blog about sustainability, making soap and being a little weirdo going against the Los Angeles grain. I also write for WPMU DEV. The blog. So you can check out my WordPress tutorials and everything there.

Amy M: 38:42 Awesome. Thanks for being on today.

Felicia C: 38:45 Thank you so much everyone.

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