Speaker 1:
Welcome to Women in WP, a bi-monthly podcast about women who blog, design, develop, and more in the WordPress community.
Angela:
Hi everyone, I’m Angela Bowman.
Tracy:
I’m Tracy Apps, and we have a guest host, Allie Nimmons.
Allie:
Hi!
Tracy:
Yay!
Angela:
And we’re delighted to have as our guest today, Sheree Chambers, who’s joining us from Australia, in the future.
Sheree:
Hello, yes. 16 hours ahead, it’s daytime here.
Angela:
It’s still daytime where I am. Sheree owns her own creative agency and teaches at the local community college. And we’d like to start out each episode, Sheree, by asking our guests how they got into WordPress. Please tell us your story.
Sheree:
WordPress was a journey. I’ve been sole WordPress developer for four years now, but in 2008, I was a graphic designer and decided to teach myself a bit of Joomla and just got introduced to the world of CMS and got a little bit addicted to coding and other things, and the world has evolved a lot since then. And then in about 2016, when I left my full-time time job to plunge into full-time web design, I discovered the world of WordPress and fell in love and have ditched everything else, and now I’m a WordPress developer. So yeah, so I went from the Bring it Media, graphic design, Adobe. I still do graphic design a lot, but then I was working in marketing full time, but managing corporate websites and different things and then just covered plugins and all the nerdy stuff that goes along with WordPress. And now I’m a WordPress girl.
Tracy:
I love it. So you went from graphic design into Joomla.
Sheree:
Yes.
Tracy:
I worked with Joomla many, many years ago, and it was… I had a really hard time adjusting to that. How was that transition for you? [crosstalk 00:02:16]
Tracy:
Just from design, because it’s a much different world from print design, especially graphic design into WordPress world and how to translate that into something like Joomla to WordPress. How was that?
Sheree:
Absolutely. I’m very much a nerd, so I loved, even with graphic design, I tended to love more learning how the program worked and learning all the bits and the technical pieces behind it. It’s not so much that I’m like a great artist or designer, it’s more that I understood how the program worked and connected. And then, so with websites, I could put design and my nerd love of just figuring out programs and computers and software together. That’s how that kind of happened.
Tracy:
I can relate to that. I was the same way. I was an art major, I did graphic design, and I was like, I was teaching myself to code as well, and yeah, I think that there’s a good, especially when you’re doing stuff for code, designing for code, to understand how it works. This only improves how you design for it.
Sheree:
Yeah, exactly. Yep. And I like everything to be ordered, so I love figuring out how do we place things like so that they’re in the right position and it all looks neat and tidy, and yeah, so…
Angela:
What were your biggest challenges? Like what did you find…? Well, you first transitioned to Joomla, which in itself would’ve been like a hurdle, but when you then made the transition from Joomla to WordPress, what did you love or hate or what were your challenges or wins?
Sheree:
So figuring out a whole new system is always I find a fun challenge. Some people are afraid of technology, but I just love figuring out how things work and operate and sort of the system behind what you’re seeing visually, and Joomla is much more heavy hands-on code than what I find WordPress to be. Development takes a lot longer in Joomla. So with WordPress, I found, I fell in love. They’ve got some amazing things that have like drag and drop, or actually the visual side of it. So I discovered what was Visual Composer, now WPBakery, the Divi theme, a lot of those kind of things. And it was just like, oh my goodness, I can make a website in a day, like a basic one, whereas it used to take one to two weeks at least, figuring out Joomla and finding the right theme. And it just was such a quicker process that I very quickly learned that WordPress is a wonderful platform and so flexible in that space that, yeah, I think there was probably about a month’s transition where I went, Joomla can go somewhere else and I know that they’ve had updates and there is improvements now, like I’m not… But I just-
Tracy:
I’m sure there is. But yes, I had the same experience. I was like, oh no.
Sheree:
Yeah, no, it was… Yeah, so I just found WordPress and plugins like, oh my goodness, I think the first few WordPress sites I developed, I just had way too many plugins, and I was so slow and overloaded just playing with like, there’s these amazing technical developers out there that have just thought of everything and created a solution that I don’t have to come up with something custom. You can think out of the box and run with it. That was amazing.
Allie:
How did you find that to be, like that transition for your business? Did you find it easier or more challenging to have to say, okay, I build sites with Joomla now, and this is my workflow and my process, to then switch to using WordPress. Did you find that clients were more susceptible to that or did you have to find a new sort of client base? How did you handle that shift?
Sheree:
Yeah, so I didn’t have many Joomla clients. I’d built more for friends. I was still working full-time when I was doing Joomla development. I was a marketing manager. The website at the company I worked for was Joomla, which is also why I was in that environment, but then when I went, you know, I’m going to try to do this on my own and see how I go, and then I left the corporate world to do my own thing. It was WordPress basically came hand in hand with that. So I was able to establish my business from the get go as a WordPress developer, so all of my customers from that time, I was full time developing as my sole income were WordPress customers. And I found that a much easier sell as well, because more people were familiar with what WordPress was and trust it a bit more.
Allie:
So someone call Auttomatic, what a case study. It sounds like WordPress really kind of gave you that on ramp to be able to do your own thing.
Sheree:
Yeah, it really did. So I left my job sort of not knowing what I was going to do for income. I’m like, I’ve got these skills. Hopefully people will pay me to use them and I’ve got a bit of a portfolio, so could use that. And I wasn’t actually sure if I’d transition to graphic design or web design, and so to have… And yeah, there was just so much demand for WordPress websites, and I found everyone who contacted me wanted a website. So I was like, okay, if you’ll give me your money, I’ll do that, because that’s what you want. So yeah, and then yeah, I’ve tailored my business slightly since then, but at that point I was just, what will people pay me to do?
Allie:
Yeah, I’ve been in that same exact position, like leaving a job, of being like, all right, well I have certain skills. Maybe people want to give me money for these skills. Let’s see what’ll happen. And yeah, super gratifying, right, when that just sort of takes off and you have something like WordPress to support you in that. So that’s so cool to hear. I love those kinds of stories.
Tracy:
So, you’re in New South Wales, right? Right? Okay. So what is the WordPress community like there? And did you get involved right away or was it something that, like myself, I didn’t realize there was a WordPress community until years into when I was owning my own company and developing, right? So what was your experience with that, and what’s the community like there?
Sheree:
There’s not where… because I’m in Newcastle, which is a couple of hours north of Sydney, which is the capital, and there’s a great freelance community up here, so other sort of small business owners, from freelancers to sort of a bit more established and more agency style. And I haven’t connected with a lot of local WordPress developers. I actually tend to find most of my WordPress communities still online. A lot of them are in America actually, which is how I know about your podcast and hear you. And there’s a few there I’m very connected with. From as soon as I started working, I connected with a group called the Freelance Jungle, which is an online Australian freelancer community. But that’s like copywriters, developers, artists, just anyone working solo, really, who’s looking for a community hub and that’s really where I found my people. And we have a bit of a breakout WordPress group in that group who we tend to connect. I don’t know that the Australian WordPress community is, well that I found, is quite there yet. So still, yeah, you sort of look for them in pockets of other little people and the beauty of it is you can look globally.
Allie:
Love it. Well, everything, all of the events and community things are virtual right now. So you can attend as many word camps and meetups as you want. They’re all going to be online.
Sheree:
Yeah, yeah. We do have word camp here. I haven’t actually been to one yet, but yeah, there is a word camp.
Allie:
I had no idea. That’s so cool.
Tracy:
I mean, I think we need sponsors to go there, right? I need to get back to Australia. I think, once the word camps are back in real life, we should go there, I think. Yeah.
Allie:
Sounds about right.
Tracy:
It would make sense.
Sheree:
The risk you have to take, the sacrifice.
Angela:
We’ll take one for the team. Yeah. We’ll get our antibody test first. I just had someone reach out to me who is making a theme transition and was asking me questions about Elementor plugin, which is kind of like WPBakery, you know, a page layout, and he’s in Australia, or he’s actually in New Zealand. And I said, well, you can attend our meetup next Tuesday, because it will be noon my time, but 7:00 AM there. And it was like, this is awesome. I’m kind of digging on the worldwide possibilities here for sure. And you’ve already kind of had to do that. Have you come across Kate Toon? She was on a previous podcast and she’s in Australia. She’s an SEO person.
Sheree:
Yeah, yeah. I’ve met Kate Toon. I’ve been to a few of her meetups actually, and a little bit of a fan girl, I’ve got to be honest. I try not to make my stalking too obvious, but she’s very well known here and well received, like her copywriting school and I’m actually a part of some of her Facebook communities. And she’s in the Freelance Jungle, which is where I first connected with her as well in that, so yeah, she’s a very savvy woman entrepreneur, and life goals right there. And she lives probably about an hour south of where I am as well, so getting to her meetups is quite good.
Allie:
Speaking of lady business goals, I know in America it can be tough for women who are either owning their own business or freelancing. And if you have a male client or a male-led business that you have as a client and kind of sometimes battling with that sort of gender role issue. Have you experienced that in your rise to where you are now?
Sheree:
Absolutely. There’s always, yeah, unfortunately it’s not something that’s limited to the U.S. Gender issues are everywhere, and I started off with a couple of contractors when my agency was growing to sort of help carry the load. And I’ve since, my agency is now solely females, because I actually found my customers really appreciated talking to someone, like a lot of my customers are female. I do have plenty of male customers as well, but I found that they particularly appreciated someone who knew tech and knew that kind of language, but didn’t talk down to them like they were stupid for not knowing it. So I’m like, well you only know what you know, and this is the language I speak, but I understand other people don’t, so trying to communicate in non-tech terms, and I found that a lot of my customers came to me purely because they weren’t finding that with their male developers.
Sheree:
And not in every case, and I know that there are women that get caught up in the technical buzz as well with people, but I’ve just found, it’s actually been quite a positive thing for me in my business that people have really appreciated that there’s a female who knows the tech stuff, but won’t speak to me like I’m an idiot because I don’t, and yeah, so I’ve really embraced that and found that well. And I’ve actually found my male customers really appreciate that as well. I haven’t had too much pushback. I did lose one male customer about a year ago. Never said why, but I have a feeling it was more the gender conflict, which unfortunately happens, but that’s… Yeah, thank you.
Tracy:
Well, you know, that’s interesting, because I’ve had a very similar thing where I’ve had and literally specifically said, oh, I want to work with a woman because they are more empathetic and had all of these different things. And also I feel like, I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like coming from especially the design and having to learn all this stuff, I feel like it gives us more empathy to bring our clients along with in kind of more simple ways. Have you found that your journey itself helped also kind of relate to your customers and maybe even get more customers?
Sheree:
Oh, absolutely. Like I said, I love learning. I self taught myself all these different systems and I’m continually trying to learn different things. So I’ve actually, that’s my role at the community college to actually train small groups of people that want to learn. I’ve just found that I love, yeah, I remember where I was at when I didn’t know, like when I didn’t have that knowledge, and just that learning journey and coming along, and yeah, discovering the wonderful world of WordPress and website design. I really enjoy teaching people that, and also the empathy, as you said, remembering what it was like when you didn’t know what, like the knowledge I now have, and helping people along that journey. So something I love.
Angela:
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Angela:
Do you teach mostly people who want to build personal sites or is it more people who have organizations or businesses? And what are the demographics of your students? What do they tend to be like?
Sheree:
Yeah. So yeah, at the community college, it’s actually an amazing program. It’s fully government funded for the students. It’s accredited, so they get a certificate from a registered training organization at the end of completing the course, so there’s a lot of incentive for them to come. A part of the government funding is I get paid as well, which is a bonus. But it also means that we can open that up to people who couldn’t generally afford [inaudible 00:18:32], so a lot of the community college people are people who are starting out in small business, don’t have the startup capital to pay a designer or to do something, so they just really want to build their own site. So I use the Elementor theme, which you just mentioned before. I use that to teach them, because I find that’s a really quick, easy system for people to pick up solo, and yeah, just help equip them to be able to more build their own small, personal business website.
Sheree:
I’m not training to become developers or anything. It’s for, hey, this is how you can not only build your website, but also manage it ongoing. And I’ll teach them a little bit of the technical behind the scenes, things that you need to know with WordPress as well. And a lot of them actually will connect with me afterwards and talk about hosting and domain names and all of that other things as well. And I get to support them through that journey, but yeah, the demographics definitely [inaudible 00:19:35] opinions of business and they don’t have any kind of web presence. They don’t really have a solid understanding of SEO and all of those different wonderful things that you need to know when getting online your business.
Angela:
Yeah. It’s interesting you mentioned domain names and hosting. I’ve taught like full on courses, like so much information, and then the one piece that we all stumble, like all my students stumble on is just getting the DNS and hosting. It’s like, oh yeah, that’s part of the internet. That’s part of what you have to do to have a website. And it’s like this seemingly simple thing, but it’s like this huge hurdle.
Sheree:
Oh, really is. And people don’t understand. It’s like, it’s still stored physically somewhere. The cloud isn’t actually in the sky, there’s server rooms sitting.
Tracy:
There is no cloud. It’s just someone else’s computer.
Sheree:
Exactly.
Tracy:
For your business, do you have a specific niche that you serve or do you have a wide range of your clients?
Sheree:
I have a wide range. I’ve tended, once I’ve built one website for one industry, I tend to get a lot of different inquiries to that specific industry. So I do a lot of counseling practices now and psychologists, that kind of healthcare has become a niche because I did a couple of years ago build quite a large website for one of the governing bodies for the council in Australia. So I just became the go-to person. When I first started out, I was doing a lot of church websites actually, because I had a few connections with a few different churches, so not doing the podcast, but they do record their weekly sermons and get them online. So yeah, and you just tend to branch out, but I also do a lot of project managers and contractors and that kind of building industry as well. And yeah, still finding my niche even four years along, but it’s definitely more of a niche now than it was when I started, when I’d just take anything. I can be a bit more fussy with the kind of jobs I accept these days, which is a nice place to be.
Tracy:
So, I feel like it’s interesting, because I also did a lot of church websites. And yeah, especially with counseling and stuff, so for someone who’s listening that’s like, oh, I want to start my own business or want to be able to get into that, do you have any advice and kind of ways to gain the clients? Because you know, once you get started, then it can be more easier, but how you get started into getting into that counseling and become that go-to person.
Sheree:
Yeah. Oh, there’s so many different things. There’s a couple of things that you have to do from the beginning. You have to have a process. You have to know what your sales process is, so how are you going to get the brief for the job? How are you going to scope that out? How are you going to actually figure out how much that’s going to cost? Because I definitely in the beginning, like I’m sure most developers, was definitely undercharging, spending a lot of time doing things that I was not getting financial compensation for, yep? The story is real. So knowing that, having really strong terms and conditions as well, so that if you do get scope creep and the scope does change along the way, that you’re going to have the financial means to survive with that and still deliver what the client needs. So having that, and along the process, having the goals and milestones and steps and really strong communication set up with the customer.
Sheree:
I find I do a discovery call at the beginning when a customer initially makes contact. And for me, that’s just as much about discovering my relationship with them, if we are going to be able to be people who work together. And also, as you get a little bit further along, you learn to look for the red flags of a customer that may not be the right fit and maybe a little bit more difficult than others, yep. So I find that discovery call is really important for that, and also just to have really clear expectations of what you are going to deliver, what you expect them to give you in the process, and boundaries, boundaries all the way. Make sure you… You are not available 24/7, and people need to respect that and let you have your downtime, and a website is not going to end the world if something happens to it out of hours.
Tracy:
Are you bleeding internally? No. Then it is not an emergency. I’m going to go to sleep and I will deal with your website after this, yeah.
Sheree:
Exactly, exactly. So, and yeah. And early on I learned a lot of it’s just about managing someone else’s anxiety. Like we said earlier, people don’t know what they don’t know, so just being really clear about, this is the solution I’m providing. This is how I’m providing it. Rest assured you’re in good hands. And the further along you get, the more established you are in the market, the more people do trust that. If you’re starting out, know that you don’t have that reputation yet.
Tracy:
That’s actually pretty impressive that you’re already up there. I want to say it took me maybe five years to get to that space where I was like, okay, very clear boundaries. Here is my contract, very explicitly spelled out. Yeah, because those were some of the mistakes I made as well, and I was like, oh, I didn’t expect to be doing all of this and you calling me at 2:30 in the morning, because you knew I would be up because I work really weird hours when I have the opportunity to. I work like overnight because my brain is calm enough to be able to focus. She knew I would be awake and I’d be working and I’d be like, oh. Ever since then, I now will wait at least a day to respond to an email to let that be the baseline.
Sheree:
I discovered a great plugin. I use G Suite for my email, and I discovered Boomerang, which you can schedule when email is sent. So I only send emails during business hours, even if I’ve written them at 2:00 AM, because that way my customers don’t have that knowledge that I’m working at 2:00 AM.
Allie:
Somebody asked me this a while ago and I to this day cannot answer. What are your top three favorite plugins? I know you mentioned earlier, like when you first discovered WordPress, you loved that there were all of these plugins that solve all your problems. What do you think are your top three favorites?
Sheree:
Top three. That’s like asking someone to choose their favorite child.
Allie:
It’s a hard question.
Sheree:
So, I love Yoast. Yoast would be in my top three. It’s on every website that I use. It’s my go-to SEO plugin. I find, like obviously they’ve got the premium version for paid, but their free version for particularly small businesses just starting out has so much in it that’s just amazing. So I find, and it also means less of the [inaudible 00:27:17] client websites on Google. And so definitely Yoast. For my students, Elementor would be one that I recommend for them. I don’t develop my own websites with Elementor, but if I’m training someone and trying to equip them with no website development knowledge, to be able to build their own site, I think Elementor has a great, yeah, the drag and drop features. It’s got a lot of different modules in it. You don’t actually need your website to be that plugin heavy. And it’s got the contact forms and other integrations already built in, which is helpful.
Sheree:
And what would be a third one? For myself, for my own website, I don’t use this for customers, but I use one called Awesome Support, which is a ticketing plugin. And my customers very much appreciate that they can just send me an email. It goes to the ticketing system, the help desk support for my website that’s already been built, and announce it in a live environment where they want the extra features added and different things. There are definitely plenty more plugins, and I may look back and listen to this and regret that I didn’t mention something else, but yeah, off the top of my head, I’ll go with those three.
Allie:
Nice. That’s a really good list. That’s two that I’m very, very familiar with and one that I’d never heard of before. So I’ll have to go check that out.
Tracy:
I like the ticketing idea. Because I mean, that’s the beauty of WordPress is that it can do anything really.
Sheree:
Exactly.
Tracy:
That’s great. Oh nice, I’m going to have to check that out.
Allie:
You don’t have to build it. You can find someone else who built it.
Sheree:
And with me, my current position is I’m actually having a baby next month. So I’ve been… which is exciting, yay. My first, so trying to figure out how to keep my business running without me there has been a challenge. So the ticketing system has really helped me. I’ve employed another developer who will be managing those tickets and support, but yeah, trying to make my customers relax that they can still be looked after even when I’m nursing a baby and not as available as I have been. So that’s been part of the reason I found that ticketing solution, trying to manage once I’m not actually here.
Allie:
Yeah, awesome, yeah.
Sheree:
Thank you.
Angela:
Yeah, congratulations. That’s so exciting.
Sheree:
Yeah.
Angela:
Sleep now.
Sheree:
The last few nights, I’m getting kicked a lot now. So I think it’s preparing me for what’s ahead. So yep.
Angela:
So are you guys in lockdown in where you are for the COVID?
Sheree:
Basically, basically. We have… We’re in New South Wales, so each state has sort of implemented their own rules. There is a total parliamentary sort of federal nationwide ruling, but then each state has their own. So ours is basically, you can go to work if it’s an essential service that you need to leave the house to do. You can go for medical appointments and things, which obviously I need at this point in my life, and you can do your basic, like essential groceries, that kind of shopping. But anything else, there’s actually severe fines. And exercise, we’re allowed to leave to go out. We’re only allowed one person gatherings, so we can have one person come to our home or you can go and exercise with one other person who doesn’t live in your home. Yeah, it’s a little bit of an interesting time to be having a baby actually, because I can’t see [crosstalk 00:31:18].
Tracy:
That’ll be interesting, because now, I mean, I bet you get a lot of advice on, you know, especially this is your first child, right? So you get a lot of advice. Now, no one’s going to have advice for you, you’re like in this case. So you’re going to be the one giving the advice on if this goes that long.
Sheree:
Yeah, it’s actually been wonderful, because I’ve worked from home for four years. Like I’ve tried coworking spaces a little bit, but all my team work remotely. We don’t have a central office. And so, my husband is now working from home and a lot of my friends are, and I’ve been able to give them advice on how do you cope with your own company? How do you actually, yeah, make sure you have a routine and you can still interact with people and use Zoom and do online things. But it’s been amazing, because a lot of… I don’t do face to face meetings with my customers. The travel time can get too much and you know, I only have so many hours in a day and I’m trying to fill other orders. So I found that this lockdown people have resented that a bit less. They’ve actually realized, oh, meeting online is actually a good solution and a viable one. And so the less resistance to that way I run my business has been quite nice actually.
Tracy:
Yeah. I’ve been seeing the same thing and yeah, so you’ve been working from home as well, so yeah, you’re prepared. So now you are the expert.
Sheree:
Yep, exactly. Pretty much so. Yep, no, so yeah. Instead of everyone giving me baby advice, I’m giving them more technology advice.
Tracy:
Isn’t that satisfying, right?
Sheree:
So good.
Angela:
Yeah. And Allie’s been doing a fun thing. She’s been doing silent coworking via Zoom.
Sheree:
Oh, nice.
Allie:
Every Wednesday. Open invitation, and you can just come and work and… because I like working with other people.
Tracy:
I want to do that too.
Allie:
Okay, cool. I’ll invite you tomorrow, yeah, because I like working with other people, but like quietly. It’s nice to have other people in my general like mental vicinity, and yeah. They’ve been successful and fun, and I’ve met new people and yeah.
Sheree:
Oh, fantastic.
Angela:
I feel like Allie is my new babysitter. If I get on there, it’s like, I got to pretend like I’m actually doing work.
Allie:
That is an unintentional output, but I’m glad to help. It does make me hyper focused when there’s somebody else on the screen. I really feel like I have to do what I’m supposed to do.
Sheree:
Pressure is on.
Tracy:
Yeah, I feel the same. So I feel like that I’d really benefit from that, because I’ve been having, I mean I also work from home, or my own office for quite a while, so I feel pretty prepared for the whole working at home thing, but then add the whole global pandemic thing on top of it and the mental stress there, and I was like, I don’t… I can’t focus on anything. So everything is off kilter, so I think that’s a great idea. I love it. Cool.
Sheree:
Yeah. So what’s the situation there at the moment? Are you all still allowed out and about? Is there any lockdown?
Tracy:
Wisconsin’s very similar to you, or Milwaukee is. Yeah, I think most of Wisconsin is like that. So, I don’t know about…
Angela:
Yeah, and I’m in Colorado, so we have stay-at-home orders, but we can go outside. There’s no limits on people being outside in a group, you know, so you could be with all your family or whatever, but you’re supposed to stay six feet from people, but we have all these amazing open space and trails and we have a very outdoorsy community here in Boulder. And so, now on the Nextdoor group, I don’t know if you guys have Nextdoor app in Australia, but it’s this app where all the neighbors are on and everyone’s complaining about everyone crowding the trails. And I’m like, it’s like people complaining about traffic. It’s like, if you’re in the traffic, you are the traffic.
Angela:
If you don’t like the crowded trails, just stay home or go around your neighborhood. But yeah, so the biggest change for me is that I actually do have an office outside my home, but I work by myself and I have a couple people who share. We have like, closing door offices, but it’s just so quiet and peaceful there. So for me being at home, I don’t have my proper desk, I don’t have my proper chair, and I’m being really fussy, and it’s just so distractable at home. So I probably do need all your… I used to work from home. I probable need more stay at home tips again now.
Allie:
I’m in Miami, Florida. And I actually, I just realized, I don’t know what our official rules are right now. I mean, Florida doesn’t have the greatest track record for making great decisions about things. Anyway, I just know that we’re supposed to be staying inside and we’re supposed to be social distancing. I haven’t heard anything about fines or anything like that. I’m even kind of doing a quick Google search and I can’t find any information on government websites about what the solid rules are, but I’m trying to just be smart about it and, you know, do the common sense things and you know, stay home. Just tell everyone to stay home.
Sheree:
Stay home, yep.
Angela:
Well, it’s been so great to talk to you and have you on the show. Amy usually does this part. She asks, where can people find you online?
Sheree:
My website is brugel.com.au, being an Australian company. And my slogan is “Talk to the Brand” because I’m all about branding and getting people all of their branding collateral, put it out. Yeah, so brugel.com.au, sorry. Brugel was my maiden name, and I wasn’t married when I started my business, so I’ve just kept it as my business name. Now I’m Sheree Chambers.
Angela:
Well, you’ll have to let us know when you have your baby.
Sheree:
Yeah, definitely.
Angela:
Send us some pictures.
Tracy:
So we can add it to the show notes afterwards, right? We can just add the photos on the website?
Angela:
This might actually go up at about the time you have that baby. So, that would be perfect.
Sheree:
Excellent. So I’ll send a picture of the baby and…
Tracy:
Love it.
Allie:
Put it on the internet for everybody to see.
Sheree:
Exactly. That’s the only way people are going to see it right now, so…
Angela:
True.
Sheree:
Yeah. Actually I’ve got a lot of mums who are quite jealous that I’ll get those first few weeks at least alone without all the constant visitors and interruptions when I’m sleep deprived and learning.
Tracy:
Yeah.
Sheree:
It has its positives, yep.
Angela:
It truly does.
Speaker 1:
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