Angela:
Welcome to Women in WP, a bi-monthly podcast about women who blog, design, develop, and more in the WordPress community.
Hi, welcome to Women in WP. I’m Angela Bowman.
Tracy:
And I’m Tracy Apps.
Angela:
Our guest today is Birgit Olzem, also known as Coach Birgit, joining us from Gerolstein, Germany. Birgit leads DEIB initiatives within the WordPress community, aiming to make it more inclusive and accessible. As the founder of Coach Birgit Media, she specializes in WordPress services and personal branding, helping clients optimize their online presence. Additionally, through her artist brand LiCoBi Design, she explores contemporary art and surface pattern design, I just want you to be my new best friend now, often integrating the creative elements into web design projects. Birgit is an overall WordPress and WordCamp powerhouse, I stole that from WPCoffeeTalk’s podcast interview with you, as well as a mom to five children and a highly creative person.
Welcome, Birgit.
Birgit:
Hi, thank you very much. Nice to see you.
Angela:
We usually start our episodes asking women how they got into WordPress, but for our reboot of the Women in WP podcast, we are starting off interviewing other women podcasters interviewing, who are doing podcasts about WordPress and it came to my attention from Bob Dunn that you are talking about DEIB, bringing DEIB to The WordPress Way show, which is part of the Do the Woo podcast, and we want to hear all about that and how you got involved with hosting a podcast and what your podcast is about.
Birgit:
Yeah, thank you very much. I’m kind of still a fresh person into the podcasting world as a host. And to preface it a little bit, I founded the DEIB working group within the WordPress making Slack, Make WordPress Slack, and Bob is a regular attendant of the weekly meeting and our office hours. And Bob sparked some day the idea to bring more awareness about the DEIB, which stands for diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, more to the surface and offered a spot in his show, The WordPress Way, on Do the Woo so that we can bring in on a monthly topic and talking about what does DEIB stands for, what can we do so that we can understand how this is not only a buzzword or some buzz terms, but also how can we do this into practice? How can we implement that in our daily doing and being together? We are all human beings and it is helpful when we know how we can be more compassionate about with each others, but also thriving and supporting our philosophy of WordPress.
Tracy:
I love that. And every time I see that, listen, I just keep seeing DEB or DEIB, but it’s… Especially now is really an important issue. What was the, usually there’s something that sparks that. What kind of push to get that focus in front of people and bring that awareness that happened to bring you to that point?
Birgit:
To be honest, I personally didn’t know about all the terms and acronyms before I started researching about it because I’m naturally drawn to put myself into the front of someone feels injustice. My mom always told me I was also fighting in the kindergarten and being the middle person, the mediator when I was little. So I feel myself drawn to improve workflows and that someone feels well and everyone… I have my mission is someone needs to feel comfortable in my surroundings and also without everything they are dealing with and it’s very ambitious. But last year we had so much public discussion and confrontation within part of the community, I felt the urge we need to do something and also to bring our community code of conduct more into the life and in the daily workflows. And I felt we don’t have really an official guidebook DEIB strategy within our WordPress community, even if we are 20 years old now as a community and a software project. And I feel it’s finally time and we had so many great persons leading this path currently.
So we had so many great people from different sub-communities within a WordPress community fighting for being seen and being heard. And some… My urge was to bring some kind of landmark or a map to the WordPress community because the WordPress community is so big currently. And I as a person, I’m contributing to WordPress over a decade now, and I kind of feel lost because it’s a very big project and very… So many teams, we have currently 22 official make teams. So it is hard to grasp what is each team doing. And when this discussion on Twitter arose around certain topics and people, I thought I need to write a proposal about establishing a formal DEIB team to the WordPress project. And I also asked a question during the Q&A at WordCamp Europe last year to Josef and Matt so that we can have some kind of formality.
Nothing really set in stone, but like the community code of conduct, something we can rely on as in community contributor so that we can go to a place or make WordPress.org or WordPress.org where we can find what do we need in our daily basis, what are the guidelines? Because currently there is certain guidelines buried in some handbooks and even a seasoned contributor doesn’t find the right document you’re currently looking for. And that was the urge behind this. And when I started researching for this, then I stumbled upon the acronym DEI, which stands for diversity, equity, inclusion, but also that currently also the B, which stands for belonging, is part of the equation. And the end result is of putting into DEIB strategies, even in a company or in a project. In the end, the person who is involved should be feel belong. And that is the result of diversity, equity, inclusion, that someone feels belong to a community.
And that is something… And when I started with my personal blog post, suddenly some doors opened and I’m now here and talking about this and focusing on that because yeah, it’s really close to my heart and now I have something I personally can really relate myself to my personal interest, but also my compassion within the project and the people because we are coming for software and we are staying for the people as a common say in the WordPress community. And it is really, without the community, I wouldn’t have survived some certain phases in my life. So yeah.
Tracy:
I agree. I like the come for the software, stay for the people. Someone should design that t-shirt. I think that’s great. Just one thing about, thinking about just adding belonging to it is so powerful because I’ve been places where I’ve been included, but I didn’t feel like I belonged. And that extra step and makes so much difference. And what you’re saying with yeah, stay for the community, that’s what a true community is, is that place of belonging and acceptance. So I am with you on that. I was probably the same person on the playground actually. So just over here in the States.
Birgit:
And as you mentioned, it is now something… It is more grasped, you can get more a touch on it. And as you mentioned, we have a lot to do because feeling accepted as a person you are… No matter what gender, personal identity, your background, your social background, history, no matter what, you are a human person and I am a human person and Angela is a human person and we want to be accepted as we are. And I have the experience, not everyone in my surroundings is aware of this concept, but in the deep inner self, I guess all humans want to be that. Even if certain personal filters, we all have our own sunglasses with pink glasses and we are looking through our personal lens of the world and everyone has an own reality. But within, we have also intersections. And my vision is that these intersections are more compassionate so that we accept everyone as they are and giving a space that they can be that they are and bring their personal skill set into the project, for instance, or family gathering.
You can expand this on everything, but we are currently focusing on WordPress. But from this idea, maybe I’m kind of a visionary, why not WordPress leading the way how we act as human beings? Because WordPress, we know is leading software in the open source world and why can’t we need not be a beacon of hope, I call it often, to say, “Okay, the pandemic showed a lot where the society is crumbling and feeling lost”? And with the belonging part, to circle back on that, is during the pandemic we learned how hard it is to be not around other people to get nurtured within conversations. And we felt excluded and also alone. And this feeling of belonging or this urge of feeling of belonging is much bigger and more on the surface than ever, I observe. This is my observation. I don’t know how you feel about this. Did you feel that the same?
Tracy:
I definitely felt that. So just on a personal note, because at the time I lived alone, so it was literally me and my cat and no human interaction. And I know with my own mental health that’s not good for it. But out of caution and safety, I was like, “Okay, I isolated,” and that… I still think I’m recovering from that because we’re not meant for that. Like you’re saying, it’s just something that’s hardwired into us and whether we… And I feel like especially once all of the distractions were taken away and you’re forced to sit with it and you’re like, “Oh, I’ve been ignoring this part,” and that’s not good and that’s not healthy. And one thing that I’ve been kind of encouraged by is the shift in… Especially in western kind of cultures, whatever is most valued is especially in the United States, it was efficiency. So as you got older, you got less efficient, so you were less valuable. And the whole concept of wasting a day is, “Oh, because I didn’t produce enough.” And that is not how we’re wired.
That’s just how we are trying to be fit and jammed into a society. And when that was all like, okay, you take that away, like you said, you see the things that are crumbling, the things that were ignored, we couldn’t ignore them anymore. I used to be like, “I’m going to push through and I’m just going to do this thing.” And now my body’s like, “Nope, you’re not. You’re not going to.” And I don’t think that’s a bad thing.
Angela:
Yeah. What I noticed during the pandemic, and I didn’t notice it really until after when we started to be able to just go places because I really isolated, is just going into a store and having incidental encounters with people. And I really had not fully appreciated the benefit of strangers in my life. You think about being close to people like, oh, the most important relationships or those ones that we’re most intimate or close to, but just being able to have a little conversation with the lady in the bakery below my office when I go in, those little incidental encounters. And that also speaks to belonging because it’s not just that we belong to our family, we belong to the world. And when you’re in isolation, you lose your place in the world. But if you can go into a bakery near where you live and you feel like I belong here. And just those incidental encounters with people help you to belong. And I think when you speak about WordPress and the WordPress community, what I heard you say is that when you approach the project, there’s a sense of how…
There’s a questioning of do I belong here and how do I belong and how do I find my place in here? And if there’s not a map set out for people to find their way through that and you’ve got to be in the know or have a buddy or a tech bro or whatever initiate you, it’s like you do need some… Sorry to pick on the tech bros, but it can be true, that unless you’re in an inner circle or something, how do we carve a path so more diversity of people can find their way into that space? So what I heard you talk about is you’re speaking about the project and it sounds like with the various make groups finding more intentionality around helping people to be included and belong. And then you’re also doing this podcast and I’m wondering if you could… One is I am so curious about the podcast because it’s so brand new. And so what is your plan with that and how does that play into the rest of this goal that you have with the bigger community?
Birgit:
Yeah, it’s a good question. I’m still in the exploring phase of this podcast idea but the main intention is education. So I’m mom of five children, almost grown up children. My youngest is turning 18 this year. But I have also two grandchildren and I want them to raise in a world where we are more compassionate and I see a lot of stress about the corporate world, as you already mentioned, with the grinding and not feeling [inaudible 00:19:47] but when I look on the younger generations, especially the [inaudible 00:19:52] around my youngest daughter, they don’t want to hustle anymore and they want to be accepted as they are. And a lot of our generation, I’m turning 50 next year, I was raised by a boomer, so it’s grinding, it’s in my veins. So there’s a lot of misinformation around diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. And it is in certain generations not that obvious how we can do this. And the idea behind this podcast is really to open eyes how an interaction between two human beings can be more fostered and be more open-minded, but also how beneficial it could be.
For instance, a company to implement good strategies and not only putting that on a website and saying, “We are investing into DEIB,” but not doing it on a daily basis. That is also something we see a lot. But also how challenging that is. And it shouldn’t be the task of a minority group of people or a group of people with disabilities to open the eyes for others because they’re dealing a lot with their personal life. They have already a full load of hurdles they have to overcome to contribute to something or doing their daily business or daily life. And the idea behind that is also to raise awareness. There is the barrier for a certain group of people and how we can lift those barriers or elevate a bit so that everyone has an equitable opportunity. It’s about creating opportunities for everyone. And we can’t fit a shoebox for everyone. That is a topic. So I know that.
But on the other hand is to be aware of this, that there are someone who doesn’t have the financial support, the background, who doesn’t have the body to do eight hours straight sitting on a computer, for instance. It’s in every day. And it is not only about the visible disabilities, but also for the not visible, for neurological issues and invisible health conditions. Someone is maybe facing daily pain. And so raising awareness without calling someone out. And that is also a sword with two sides. So you need to create awareness without someone exposing them that they are facing that. And creating allyship for some. Education, creating allyship and also lifting barriers where we can. And sometimes it is an easy fix and sometimes we need to invest more time and effort into doing so. And it is a marathon, it’s not a sprint. And we need to be very patient. On the other hand, there are certain issues with the software, with the project, which needs more power, human power to get solved.
And it’s also one of the purpose of the podcast to raise awareness for the open task which needs to be done. So overall, it’s all about education and raising awareness.
Tracy:
I love that. I also noticed that very much so in the generations. I was also raised by boomers and that hustle kind of culture. And one of my… I’ve been a part of… I started working at WordPress before it was WordPress, but I wasn’t a part of the community for years because it was this big massive thing, I didn’t know what to do or where I could fit. And I didn’t have the time and luxury to be able to find that out or to figure out where to find that out. And creating that map to be able to… It’s a win-win situation everywhere because you get more people that are helping out however they can. I’m a big proponent to different ways of being able to be a contributor. If you don’t have the luxury of donating work time but you can somehow contribute in a different way, that’s just as important if not more than someone’s writing code because it takes all of the different spectrum. No one’s going to be able to… You can see like, “Oh, yeah, I’m thinking about making this accessible for dyslexic folks.”
There’s so many different variations of that just with one invisible disability. And there’s so many so there’s no way that we could all do it. So the project benefits, people benefit from the technology that works for them. And it really is. It’s a huge thing to be contributing to the community. It’s making it sustainable for the future generations who are just going to be like, “No, this doesn’t work for me, this hustle, this whatever. Not everyone’s included. I’m out.” And we see that with younger generations of like, “Yeah, WordPress, it’s… I don’t know.” So I think this is also really helping the project itself in a big way to future-proof it.
Birgit:
Yeah, exactly. And especially the idea, as you mentioned, you don’t need to have the knowledge how to code. It’s no matter what gender or some… You can contribute to the project by uploading photos or translating a plugin or a theme into your native language. Provide support in the support forums. Something you have learned for yourself, you can give this a torch to another and helping someone else. And I’m also on the mission to… Here is my German brain trying to find the right terms. It’s also part of accessibility and inclusion. But what I meant is you can contribute even if you don’t know how to code and also to be as a representative, because representation matters. And when you find… Like you are doing with a podcast, you are elevating your guests and giving them space to open the door to their little world. But also it means a lot to someone who is listening and saying, “Oh, when she can do this, I can do this myself.” So when I started using WordPress, I used WordPress also since it was first released, before it was called WordPress.
So I was tinkering a lot with it, but I was also raising my five children. And back in the days I was a single mom when I got divorced and finding my way to fill the fridge, to make a living and grinding into this. And I always found some time to contribute, not because of I contribute to something because I was around fixing something I felt it needs to be fixed or improved. So yeah, this is something. And I also, yeah, my personal urge is to make the world I have an influence in a bit better and more comfortable for some, the people around me. So… I’m not always another person that knows it all. I make a lot of mistakes. But yeah, but it’s life. And we think about to let it be as it is, acceptance, and something that you can influence and to improve, you can improve it. Find your way. I just want to mention one thing about creating a map around the make work project. Currently there’s a great initiative running the mentorship program.
We are currently in the second cohort and we are pairing seasoned contributors with new contributors or also contributors who are interested into going into a new field and explore new spaces within a WordPress project. And that is guidance one by one. It is a great opportunity to step into the field of how to contribute to WordPress, if it’s training or documentation or photos or testing the software where currently when we are recording it in the phase before WordPress 6.5 gets released and there’s a lot of testing needed. So every time you test a beta version, you are contributing to the project when you’re reporting back when something is broken. So you don’t need to have to know how to code. You can contribute. Every tiny bit helps. And I’m getting lost with my thought, but…
Angela:
No, that’s perfect. And we are just about to wrap up with time and that’s a great place to just ask people if they resonated with anything that you said today and they’re like, “I am curious about this. I want to know more and I want to maybe even get involved,” where can they find you? Where can they go? And then also, where can they find your podcast? And I know that… I think you’ve done… Have you just done the one episode now with Angela Jin of the podcast…
Birgit:
Yes.
Angela:
And you’re going to do that monthly, right?
Birgit:
On monthly basis. Yeah.
Angela:
That’s great. So let people know where they can find that and where they can get involved and if they’re interested even in this mentorship program so that we leave people with some actionable things.
Birgit:
Yeah, I love that. I’m also always a person of action. So the podcast you’re mentioning lives on Do the Woo and the show is called The WordPress Way. And you will find it on every platform. And you can find me on every social network as Coach Birgit. And when you want to get involved into the mentorship program, you can head over to Make.wordpress.org/community. And there you will find a pin post about the mentorship program and also heading over to the handbook where it also explained. And if you have any questions, you can reach out to me on every platform you find me and I can help you to find your way, how to contribute or have any questions about that.
Angela:
I love that. And we will put links on the show notes to all your socials and to the link on Make.wordpress.org and also the podcast. So thank you so much for being with us today.
Birgit:
And thank you for having me. It was really delightful.
Angela:
Thank you.
Tracy:
Thank you.
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